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	<title>Comments on: GAR (IV): Akagi vs. Kaiji, and Moral GAR</title>
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	<link>http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/gar-iv-akagi-vs-kaiji-and-moral-gar/</link>
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		<title>By: Baka-Raptor &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Five shows that restored my faith in anime</title>
		<link>http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/gar-iv-akagi-vs-kaiji-and-moral-gar/#comment-10011</link>
		<dc:creator>Baka-Raptor &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Five shows that restored my faith in anime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 06:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-10011</guid>
		<description>[...] might think that Kaiji and Akagi are two different shows. Wrong – they&#8217;re exactly the same: a male protagonist with a pointy nose must risk his life [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] might think that Kaiji and Akagi are two different shows. Wrong – they&#8217;re exactly the same: a male protagonist with a pointy nose must risk his life [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Animanachronism</title>
		<link>http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/gar-iv-akagi-vs-kaiji-and-moral-gar/#comment-9873</link>
		<dc:creator>The Animanachronism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-9873</guid>
		<description>Well well well! I&#039;m not too well-versed on &lt;em&gt;Hellsing&lt;/em&gt;, not having read the original manga, so I&#039;ll take your word that Alucard is seeking death . . . which perhaps would make him a little more human than Akagi. It&#039;s hard to judge, and perhaps if I&#039;d read the &lt;em&gt;Akagi&lt;/em&gt; manga I&#039;d know more about Akagi&#039;s character. I have a feeling that he might have a will-to-death too.

In any case, interesting comment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well well well! I&#8217;m not too well-versed on <em>Hellsing</em>, not having read the original manga, so I&#8217;ll take your word that Alucard is seeking death . . . which perhaps would make him a little more human than Akagi. It&#8217;s hard to judge, and perhaps if I&#8217;d read the <em>Akagi</em> manga I&#8217;d know more about Akagi&#8217;s character. I have a feeling that he might have a will-to-death too.</p>
<p>In any case, interesting comment!</p>
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		<title>By: Guinibir</title>
		<link>http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/gar-iv-akagi-vs-kaiji-and-moral-gar/#comment-9871</link>
		<dc:creator>Guinibir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-9871</guid>
		<description>I personally only read a small part of the manga
and never returned to the topic
But after a while I found the anime and it was less hideous so I could watch it without my eyes starting to bleed..
Anyway after reading the Hellsing manga I must say that comparing to Akagi Alucard is more human!

NOW LOTS OF SPOILERS ON HELLSING MANGA AND OVA&#039;S:
Yup! while Akagi played with death Alucard actually seeks Death!! (fro a human since he is a monster and he wants to be defeated and redeemed by the so called human strength)
also from what I realized from the hellsing manga is that Alucard has sinned and he regrets it, Alucard as a count (if I remember corectly) also seems to regret losing to the helsing master at his time and seeks death from someone with similar strength!
while I don&#039;t see Akagi having any regrets, redemption seeking or actually seeking something! He just likes the danger!
Comparing him to the merciless Alucard in the anime might fit at first look but if you dig up deeper they are not similar at all ^^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally only read a small part of the manga<br />
and never returned to the topic<br />
But after a while I found the anime and it was less hideous so I could watch it without my eyes starting to bleed..<br />
Anyway after reading the Hellsing manga I must say that comparing to Akagi Alucard is more human!</p>
<p>NOW LOTS OF SPOILERS ON HELLSING MANGA AND OVA&#8217;S:<br />
Yup! while Akagi played with death Alucard actually seeks Death!! (fro a human since he is a monster and he wants to be defeated and redeemed by the so called human strength)<br />
also from what I realized from the hellsing manga is that Alucard has sinned and he regrets it, Alucard as a count (if I remember corectly) also seems to regret losing to the helsing master at his time and seeks death from someone with similar strength!<br />
while I don&#8217;t see Akagi having any regrets, redemption seeking or actually seeking something! He just likes the danger!<br />
Comparing him to the merciless Alucard in the anime might fit at first look but if you dig up deeper they are not similar at all ^^</p>
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		<title>By: 20/20, Perfect Visions: Kaiji @ Mega Megane Moé</title>
		<link>http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/gar-iv-akagi-vs-kaiji-and-moral-gar/#comment-434</link>
		<dc:creator>20/20, Perfect Visions: Kaiji @ Mega Megane Moé</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 04:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-434</guid>
		<description>[...] admittedly I do enjoy seeing the sort of insane-gar flavor of Kaiji. It&#8217;s a contrast from the moral-gar and the analytical-gar that he sports, and I suppose this gives him both a more realistic and a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] admittedly I do enjoy seeing the sort of insane-gar flavor of Kaiji. It&#8217;s a contrast from the moral-gar and the analytical-gar that he sports, and I suppose this gives him both a more realistic and a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: animanachronism</title>
		<link>http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/gar-iv-akagi-vs-kaiji-and-moral-gar/#comment-331</link>
		<dc:creator>animanachronism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-331</guid>
		<description>I have to consider it GAR. Definition by use and example (which I stated was the foundation I was starting from) requires me to - Akagi is continually held up as the embodiment of cold-blooded GAR, and so there must be a sense of the word that fits. Words don&#039;t come from dictionaries, they come from mouths, and lots of mouths use &#039;GAR&#039; about Akagi.

[This is the difficulty and the joy of being descriptive rather than prescriptive: you don&#039;t have to come up with your own ideas, but you have to accomodate some decidedly odd ones.]

I think what I&#039;m trying to convey by the term &#039;amoral&#039; is not that Akagi&#039;s enjoyment of suffering is morally neutral, but rather that he has stepped outside a normal human moral framework. He - and the series &lt;em&gt;Akagi&lt;/em&gt; as a whole - doesn&#039;t operate morally. We&#039;re never really asked to consider his actions from a moral standpoint (though we should). &#039;Amoral&#039; may not be the best word, of course, but &#039;meta-moral&#039; or &#039;extra-moral&#039; would require extra explanation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to consider it GAR. Definition by use and example (which I stated was the foundation I was starting from) requires me to &#8211; Akagi is continually held up as the embodiment of cold-blooded GAR, and so there must be a sense of the word that fits. Words don&#8217;t come from dictionaries, they come from mouths, and lots of mouths use &#8216;GAR&#8217; about Akagi.</p>
<p>[This is the difficulty and the joy of being descriptive rather than prescriptive: you don't have to come up with your own ideas, but you have to accomodate some decidedly odd ones.]</p>
<p>I think what I&#8217;m trying to convey by the term &#8216;amoral&#8217; is not that Akagi&#8217;s enjoyment of suffering is morally neutral, but rather that he has stepped outside a normal human moral framework. He &#8211; and the series <em>Akagi</em> as a whole &#8211; doesn&#8217;t operate morally. We&#8217;re never really asked to consider his actions from a moral standpoint (though we should). &#8216;Amoral&#8217; may not be the best word, of course, but &#8216;meta-moral&#8217; or &#8216;extra-moral&#8217; would require extra explanation.</p>
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		<title>By: iniksbane</title>
		<link>http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/gar-iv-akagi-vs-kaiji-and-moral-gar/#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator>iniksbane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 07:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-320</guid>
		<description>To be fair, I&#039;m kind of having a hard time with the amoral/immoral GAR. I think you argued it well that it depends on the context (i.e. the bad guys beating up on the worse guys). Is admiring someone&#039;s Machevellian plot really all that GAR? I suppose it is now that I think about it. But it does kind of fly in the face of the whole noble hero/last stand aspect of GAR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, I&#8217;m kind of having a hard time with the amoral/immoral GAR. I think you argued it well that it depends on the context (i.e. the bad guys beating up on the worse guys). Is admiring someone&#8217;s Machevellian plot really all that GAR? I suppose it is now that I think about it. But it does kind of fly in the face of the whole noble hero/last stand aspect of GAR.</p>
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		<title>By: Shiri</title>
		<link>http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/gar-iv-akagi-vs-kaiji-and-moral-gar/#comment-311</link>
		<dc:creator>Shiri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 03:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-311</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still not sure I can buy Akagi (as described; still have only watched episode 1) as GAR to begin with. The repellant personality prevents me from looking up to or empathising with him in the way GAR seems to require. 

I think there&#039;s a difference you didn&#039;t properly underline between immoral GAR and amoral GAR. Amoral does not mean enjoying killing people and so on, it&#039;s a lack of caring about it. Suddenly I can&#039;t think of many examples off the top of my head: maybe the black dude from Black Lagoon whose name I forget. That&#039;s amoral GAR - I could respect that guy as a pro who mostly didn&#039;t go out of his way to be a bastard. Apart from that one time with the nazi leader, I guess? Even that was kind of giving him an out.

Compare the described Akagi or Alucard: these guys actively take pleasure in watching suffering. This is decidedly immoral, not amoral, and I think you have to consider it badass rather than really GAR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still not sure I can buy Akagi (as described; still have only watched episode 1) as GAR to begin with. The repellant personality prevents me from looking up to or empathising with him in the way GAR seems to require. </p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s a difference you didn&#8217;t properly underline between immoral GAR and amoral GAR. Amoral does not mean enjoying killing people and so on, it&#8217;s a lack of caring about it. Suddenly I can&#8217;t think of many examples off the top of my head: maybe the black dude from Black Lagoon whose name I forget. That&#8217;s amoral GAR &#8211; I could respect that guy as a pro who mostly didn&#8217;t go out of his way to be a bastard. Apart from that one time with the nazi leader, I guess? Even that was kind of giving him an out.</p>
<p>Compare the described Akagi or Alucard: these guys actively take pleasure in watching suffering. This is decidedly immoral, not amoral, and I think you have to consider it badass rather than really GAR.</p>
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		<title>By: animanachronism</title>
		<link>http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/gar-iv-akagi-vs-kaiji-and-moral-gar/#comment-308</link>
		<dc:creator>animanachronism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 02:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-308</guid>
		<description>@ CCY: In my opinion (which counts for little), &lt;em&gt;Kaiji&lt;/em&gt;&#039;s a much more accessible series - also, the &lt;em&gt;Akagi&lt;/em&gt; anime adaption has a very poor ending. But I still found it pretty good, so I&#039;d recommend you give it a few more episodes.

@ Demian: Possibly part of the problem is that I&#039;ve only seen the anime adaption of &lt;em&gt;Akagi&lt;/em&gt;, in which - while yes, Akagi is not physically immortal - he&#039;s undefeatable. I agree with you that Alucard&#039;s physical immortality makes it hard for him to be GAR, and in a sense I think his search for an opponent who can properly threaten him is also a search for an opportunity to be GAR.

Regarding your last sentence, I wonder if we could classify Akagi as an Alucard-esque soul searching for challenge and wanting to savour life or not have it at all, but in a human body which obviously does degenerate and can be killed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ CCY: In my opinion (which counts for little), <em>Kaiji</em>&#8217;s a much more accessible series &#8211; also, the <em>Akagi</em> anime adaption has a very poor ending. But I still found it pretty good, so I&#8217;d recommend you give it a few more episodes.</p>
<p>@ Demian: Possibly part of the problem is that I&#8217;ve only seen the anime adaption of <em>Akagi</em>, in which &#8211; while yes, Akagi is not physically immortal &#8211; he&#8217;s undefeatable. I agree with you that Alucard&#8217;s physical immortality makes it hard for him to be GAR, and in a sense I think his search for an opponent who can properly threaten him is also a search for an opportunity to be GAR.</p>
<p>Regarding your last sentence, I wonder if we could classify Akagi as an Alucard-esque soul searching for challenge and wanting to savour life or not have it at all, but in a human body which obviously does degenerate and can be killed.</p>
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		<title>By: Demian</title>
		<link>http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/gar-iv-akagi-vs-kaiji-and-moral-gar/#comment-306</link>
		<dc:creator>Demian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-306</guid>
		<description>I disagree with the comparison between Akagi and Alucard, as I find it hard to call Alucard GAR at all. Simply put, Alucard is way too powerful and immortal; he&#039;s a deus ex machina personified. Because Alucard can&#039;t die he always fights full out without caring about anything. To me, GARness requires a certain sense of mortality, a conscience recognition that the character can die. Alucard lacks this. Akagi, on the other hand, despite how untouchable he seems, is still a human and can die. He just chooses to say &quot;fuck you death,&quot; which adds to his GARNess. It doesn&#039;t mean Alucard isn&#039;t fun to watch, but in the end Akagi is the richer character. Kaiji is similar in that he can die, he just hasn&#039;t come to the Akagi point of screwing death yet, which lessens his character somewhat in my eyes.

&lt;strong&gt;Spoilers&lt;/strong&gt; here now for Akagi (&lt;strong&gt;manga&lt;/strong&gt;):

It&#039;s also interesting to note that in the author of Akagi&#039;s previous story, Ten, a full two volumes are devoted to showing Akagi&#039;s death later in life. This link, under manga, has a good summary of what happens to him: http://www.truepariah.net/ Basically, Akagi chooses to end his life rather than live a wasted life with Alzheimer&#039;s. That could be called a moral courage in its own right, but it also shows that Akagi is human, though perhaps it is his life philosophy which should be called inhuman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with the comparison between Akagi and Alucard, as I find it hard to call Alucard GAR at all. Simply put, Alucard is way too powerful and immortal; he&#8217;s a deus ex machina personified. Because Alucard can&#8217;t die he always fights full out without caring about anything. To me, GARness requires a certain sense of mortality, a conscience recognition that the character can die. Alucard lacks this. Akagi, on the other hand, despite how untouchable he seems, is still a human and can die. He just chooses to say &#8220;fuck you death,&#8221; which adds to his GARNess. It doesn&#8217;t mean Alucard isn&#8217;t fun to watch, but in the end Akagi is the richer character. Kaiji is similar in that he can die, he just hasn&#8217;t come to the Akagi point of screwing death yet, which lessens his character somewhat in my eyes.</p>
<p><strong>Spoilers</strong> here now for Akagi (<strong>manga</strong>):</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also interesting to note that in the author of Akagi&#8217;s previous story, Ten, a full two volumes are devoted to showing Akagi&#8217;s death later in life. This link, under manga, has a good summary of what happens to him: <a href="http://www.truepariah.net/" rel="nofollow">http://www.truepariah.net/</a> Basically, Akagi chooses to end his life rather than live a wasted life with Alzheimer&#8217;s. That could be called a moral courage in its own right, but it also shows that Akagi is human, though perhaps it is his life philosophy which should be called inhuman.</p>
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		<title>By: CCY</title>
		<link>http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/gar-iv-akagi-vs-kaiji-and-moral-gar/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>CCY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://animanachronism.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-304</guid>
		<description>The way I see it here, is that Akagi is the type of GAR that would make a good villain, the &quot;JUST AS PLANNED&quot; person whose raw skills you admire but you hate anyway (Tonegawa is close to this in Kaiji, although he&#039;s not GAR per se; the loophole he exploited on Brave Men Road was ace). Kaiji, like you said, is the type of GAR that you as a person could root for, very human and weak in ways but able to really pull off a badass limit break when the chips are down. In this case the latter is better, but that might just be because the latter fits the archetype of a protagonist better.

Incidentally, I&#039;ve actually only seen the first episode of Akagi so far, and was nonplussed due to the as-mentioned type of GAR Akagi sports. (The mahjong-head-explode-itude didn&#039;t help either) I&#039;m assuming it improves and has better mind-game and perhaps some emotional-wracking fun later on, but does it come close to Kaiji?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way I see it here, is that Akagi is the type of GAR that would make a good villain, the &#8220;JUST AS PLANNED&#8221; person whose raw skills you admire but you hate anyway (Tonegawa is close to this in Kaiji, although he&#8217;s not GAR per se; the loophole he exploited on Brave Men Road was ace). Kaiji, like you said, is the type of GAR that you as a person could root for, very human and weak in ways but able to really pull off a badass limit break when the chips are down. In this case the latter is better, but that might just be because the latter fits the archetype of a protagonist better.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I&#8217;ve actually only seen the first episode of Akagi so far, and was nonplussed due to the as-mentioned type of GAR Akagi sports. (The mahjong-head-explode-itude didn&#8217;t help either) I&#8217;m assuming it improves and has better mind-game and perhaps some emotional-wracking fun later on, but does it come close to Kaiji?</p>
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